tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378568575885387942.post555394975588624757..comments2024-02-18T18:59:06.164+00:00Comments on Econosophy and other musings: On ProductivityTobyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16258136994278139356noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378568575885387942.post-76287788941755315602013-08-17T16:24:45.836+00:002013-08-17T16:24:45.836+00:00We all like to self-indulge from time to time. May...We all like to self-indulge from time to time. Maybe we even need to, seeing as this is a period of such rampant narcissism. So I hope you forive me mine as I forgive you yours, fellow Cassandra. ;-)<br /><br />As to money, I still get the feeling that I have not communicated my position accurately enough, since your corrections of my position read as restatements of elements of it.<br /><br />Money IS the problem in that it is one of the primary blooms arising from the central 'wound' (for want of a better word) of what we might now call the insufficiently identified illusion of separation or War Against Nature or Ascent. But I would add that these aren't problems either, but are parts of human progress, which we also misunderstand. Money just happens to be a deliciously fruitful blindspot (aren't all blindspots fruitful when examined) since it is so famous and so central and so misunderstood. It is also a gateway. There are others, but it's the one that occupies my attention.<br /><br />A second point is definitions. What is money? It's a very hard question to answer. It is not a measure of value, as value cannot be measured. Addressing this wee nugget requires addressing measurement itelf, which is another of the primary blooms arising from the deeper 'wound'. Which is only now a wound since consciousness is struggling to evolve towards a different paradigm. So what once was fine has become restrictive, or a generator of dissonance. <br /><br />Make sense?<br /><br />I'm sure we agree fundamentally on this stuff, it's just the nitty-gritty of definitions which bogs us down a bit. And what with blog posts being necesarily brief, it can all get rather circular...<br /><br />And as to your points on work/productivity, well ... exactly. The term needs cultural renewal.Tobyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16258136994278139356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378568575885387942.post-27308500836332579512013-08-17T14:49:24.231+00:002013-08-17T14:49:24.231+00:00Tss, tss, Toby.
I see myself as a prophet crying i...Tss, tss, Toby.<br />I see myself as a prophet crying in the wilderness sometimes, particularly when it concerns the convenient paradigm of evil leaders and exploited proletariat, or other. <br />What you see depends on where you are looking from. The angle. <br />Much of what you see on the Internet reflects the very ideas behind the Internet, so there is no reason why you should see what you are looking for from the angle of a medium that is not designed to show it.<br />I keep saying that the MONOPOLY of money to measure value and serve as a medium of exchange is our biggest problem, and the rise of money goes along with the rise of... democracy, and more for more to more. <br />What hurts is not money, but squeezing out other forms of exchange, and other value systems, like grace. <br />We can't destroy definitions of anything.<br />We are subjects of language... which means that we are subject TO it, and don't control it. <br />Perhaps the rise of finance is a response to monomoniacal devotion to the work paradigm as an absolute ? <br />My husband loves his work, which puts our meat and potatoes on the table.<br />It represents little effort for him, and little constraint too.<br />So... is he a parasite ??<br />And I, who physically get down on my hands and knees for no pay... am I working ??<br />And if I am working, why so little recognition for it from the social body itself ??<br />Not that I'm griping, because I'm not.<br />Work is its own reward, in many respects. <br />As long as you don't realize that work is its own reward, you can keep griping forever, right ?<br />Too bad about all that transportation. That's a drag. Debrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01510189619803992336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378568575885387942.post-75002522250350848862013-07-19T13:19:07.519+00:002013-07-19T13:19:07.519+00:00Had to copy this across from NC, which I am visiti...Had to copy this across from NC, which I am visiting again since I started work at Wolfsburg:<br /><br />"The best book on this topic is William Ophuls “Immoderate Greatness: Why Civilizations Fail,”.<br /><br />Quoting from the book:….. “human societies are addicted to their ruling ideas and their received way of life, and they are fanatical in their defense. Hence they are extraordinarily reluctant to reform. “To admit error and cut losses,” said [Barbara] Tuchman, “is rare among individuals, unknown among states.” Instead of changing their minds, leaders redouble their efforts to do what no longer works, wooden-headedly persisting in error until the bitter end…..A gradual and gentle transition to a viable agrarian civilization capable of supporting large numbers of people and a reasonable level of complexity is extremely unlikely….We must recognize that the deep structural problems elucidated above have no feasible solutions….Hence…the task is not to forestall a foreordained collapse but, rather, to salvage as much as possible from it, lest the fall precipitate a dark age in which the arts and adornments of civilization are partially or completely lost”. <br /><br /><br />This echoes Jarred Diamond. The problem is that the elite are the elite in part because they are wholly invested in the story. The strengths that got us where we are are strngths in all circumstances, must therefore be adhered to in all situations, come what may. Greed, selfishness, ruthlessness, and so on. Those from whom we expect guidance can only sing the same song, the old song. It can be no other way. Hence, collapse must precede profound change. But how will the debate be conducted after collapse? Collapse will be global and devastating and allow little space for discussion about what went wrong and what is now right and appropriate. <br /><br />Ah me, the future looks grim indeed.Tobyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16258136994278139356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378568575885387942.post-65532034213476617372013-07-18T08:31:00.128+00:002013-07-18T08:31:00.128+00:00I agree with you Karl, in that I strongly suspect ...I agree with you Karl, in that I strongly suspect things will tend as you describe, are tending that way, even though this is still very much a minority view. I see a vast conceptual gulf between the future and the present and thus try to bridge it with articles like this one. <br /><br />There's something impenetrable about the transition that I cannot leave alone. Will there be a kond of binary switchover, or a long and bumpy process? Maybe a mix of both. Some people get it in a flash, others need more time, still others will refuse to change.<br /><br />When I venture into the mainstream I am struck by how rooted in the old paradigm the vast majority of people are. Where is the good material in the mainstream pointing people in the new direction? Nowhere that I can see, and crappy stuff is everywhere like poison. Though I know efforts like mine are minimal, I cannot help but make overtures to the old paradigm that entice towards the new. Doesn't there need to be a visible thought trail from there onto the new pathway? I think so...Tobyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16258136994278139356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378568575885387942.post-87809920877402222802013-07-18T06:45:20.785+00:002013-07-18T06:45:20.785+00:00I don't believe there is anything to be gained...I don't believe there is anything to be gained by searching for other ways to measure value and productivity. Progress will come when people realize those are abstractions extraneous to the necessary processes of creation and distribution.<br /><br />Commons oriented movements exist to break down the artificial ideological barriers between owners, producers, and users. When you are working with others to produce something for the sake of having it, the value is intrinsic and obvious. The product represents itself - no other measurement is needed. The relationship between the product and any individual is a personal one, so any universal measure will be a misidentification.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378568575885387942.post-55238232395623972732013-07-17T10:53:48.380+00:002013-07-17T10:53:48.380+00:00Hey Tao, thanks and you're welcome.
I don'...Hey Tao, thanks and you're welcome.<br /><br />I don't think definitions can be destroyed because they emerge from cultural understandings which change slowly over time. Right now there's a lot I'd like to destroy to build again, but things don't happen that way from personal desire. That said, discussions such as these should be free to roam everywhere.<br /><br />Any yes indeedy, money is about power and control. I don't believe, though, that the Bad Guys knew this from the get go. I think it became increasingly apparent to the upper layers of the state that money was the best tool of control there is, and they've milked the hell out of it ever since. Intellectuals don't really address this point, and if they do get laughed out of court. So accidental 'conspiracy' becoming conspiracy over time.<br /><br />Other than that, my family is well, as am I, but the floods in Germany have played havoc with my free time. My commute from Berlin to Wolfsburg (where VW is based) has beeen hit hard. I now spend about 35 hours a week on a train of one kind or another, as home office work is strictly verboten. It looks like staying this way until the end of this year, and perhaps beyond.<br /><br />I hope all's well your end.Tobyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16258136994278139356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378568575885387942.post-30354829336226815962013-07-17T04:38:31.831+00:002013-07-17T04:38:31.831+00:00Toby,
Good to see a new post! Thanks.
"Can...Toby,<br /><br />Good to see a new post! Thanks.<br /><br />"Can we imagine agreeing on a larger definition of work, of productivity?"<br /><br />We are better off destroying and replacing the current definitions of work and productivity than trying to expand them. The fact is that the "work" that is most valued in the Western world--i.e., Finance-- is the least "productive" and least "work" under the current definitions. And not too far behind bankers are lawyers (my profession). These days, bankers and lawyers exist to help a privileged few get a free lunch, and we get our cut as a result.<br /><br />"Why are money and productivity now so inextricably intertwined?"<br /><br />Because he who has the gold makes the rules. Money is a means of control, and defining "productivity" in terms of money is a basis for enslaving the masses while providing the illusion they are free.<br /><br />I hope all is well with you and your family.Tao Jonesinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10041034009270339963noreply@blogger.com